Posted by Thirteen on September 30, 2009


Should Personal Stores be removed?

As I’m sure, if you currently play Aion, then you have no doubt seen the Aion Customer Support In Game Questionnaire, which was available yesterday 9/29/09.  So since this is a current “Hot button” topic…

Let’s poll this:


Should personal stores be removed?

View Results

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So we have all seen the huge amount of complaints, abuse, misuse, and the FPS comments and issues regarding Personal Stores.

“…I think personal stores are great!  they let me earn money, and sell the items I want to a specific group audience…”

Really?  Cause I didnt notice a significant difference between the Broker and a Personal Store in with this excuse.

Look, call it what you want, and justify the use however you need, but in the end, they are all just excuses.  Personal Stores is a good idea, yet the use of them has offset the original idea.  So lets all just be honest.  Does John set up a Personal Store, and then sit at the computer screen staring at his toon? Or does John set up a Personal Store, (even legit), to sell some items, and then ALT+TAB out or go watch TV, Eat Dinner, Walk the Dog, Go to Class, Take a shower, Fuck your sig other, or engage in other real life activities… I.e. NOT playing?  As a reminder… lets be honest.

((BTW, I may mention, for Thirteen, I pulled in nearly 87,000 Kinah yesterday using the broker, AND gained a level through questing, and hanging out with friends in our Legion.))

“…the whole 30 mins of personal stores isnt fair!  We entrepreneurs are simply trying to make some money!  The 30 min “rule” simply isnt fair!!”

Give me a damn break!  Players are complaining about a personal store for the reason of use because of a 30 min window?!?  Versus what?  The 8 days you get from the Broker?!?  ROFLMAO!  Just who do these complainers think they are trying to fool?  This excuse is being overused only becasuse it takes away some of the ability to abuse.

Upon finding a Personal Store, labled as “edfe”, and a Manastone: Parry +6 for 199,999,998 Kinah I whisper the abuser, “…Hey asshole, I am submitting your name to NCSoft for abusing the game, a violation of the Agreement you click when you enter the game…have a good day”

Yes, I know, I can be petty.  I have come to terms with it.

Nearly a half an hr later, I get the following whisper; “…Yeah, a lot of good it did you huh? I’m still here arent I?  I will continue to use the afk store as long as its in game, b*tch, so f*ck off!”

I know what you’re thinking now, Hes classy right?  I’d love to date him!  Stay back ladies!

“…I make more profit from the personal store, than on the broker…”

Jeez, does the BS ever end?  Please at least check the Broker prices before such claims are made.  Sure, there are rare occasions, but at the expense of affecting others via fps and queue times… heh, I say, keep tryin, and think up another one.

Now, this one has some merit..

“…lets not ignore the root cause problem, isnt the Personal Store, rather the over-population of servers!”

True enough.  However what about fps?  Server memory issues, which affect stability?  Anyone do some early checks on server up time for the more popular servers?  I did.  Lumiel has an average of 2-4 hr queue time between the hrs of 4:15PM EST till 11:40PM EST.  It has a general failure or crash, at least once every 52 hrs.  52 hours!  Seriously, less than 3 days, you can expect this server to crash or go down.  Times when these crashes occur are… yup, you guessed it, during the peak hours.

Lastly, what about the beauty of the game.  I personaly HATE going to Pandemonium.. “Lag-emonium”.  Billboards EVERYWHERE!


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24 Responses to “Should Personal Stores be removed?”

  1. Takameanie says:

    One of the “good” things about personal stores is that, you can shift+right click to buy only a certain ammount of the item, unlike the broker where you can only buy the ammount the person is selling.
    This makes personal stores a better option for, say, someone selling 500 Titanium ore, and 1000 Iron ore, and 9 other items. Realistically, no one is going to buy all 500 Titanium ore, so if this person was to put it on the broker, he would have to break that up into reasonable stacks (probably 20 or less) which would be 25 stacks, and you can only put 10 up at a time. In a personal store you can put all those items up and someone can shift+right click that 1000 stack of Iron ore and buy 5 of them if they want. It also turns the broker into wasting your money, because of the broker fee. Say I put a bunch of miniscule items on the broker trying to sell them, and oooo I get a green/blue drop, but my broker is full, but I want to sell that shiny. Now I have to remove one of the items on the broker, thus wasting that broker fee I paid to place it.
    As I said on other posts, though, I agree with you. It is like everything else they make rules for…there never would have been a rule if the moronic “John Q. Public” hadn’t abused it in the first place. If idiots didn’t go around putting “AFK have fun in the queue!!!!” in their personal stores, no one would have known otherwise.
    (I like how you added the overpopulation) :)

  2. Takameanie says:

    Oh well, whatever they do, at least I’m not playing WoW anymore.

    hahaha

  3. Takameanie says:

    ““…I think personal stores are great! they let me earn money, and sell the items I want to a specific group audience…”

    Really? Cause I didnt notice a significant difference between the Broker and a Personal Store in with this excuse. ”

    This can be true, when people actually use it properly. The only time I’ve used personal stores is to set up shop overnight (when the queue isn’t a problem anyway). To buy from a broker, people actually have to “go” to the broker. To buy from a personal store, it’s “location, location, location”.
    You could compare it to Walmart having a drink section and a snack section, but then they put “some” drinks in the snack section. If I wanted to buy drinks, then I would have to go to the drink section (broker), but the way they have it set up, while I’m buying snacks (going to the flight path, ex.) I see drinks right in front of me (personal store with “something I didn’t know I needed until now” in it). What has happened here is, someone has just sold something to someone that was just running to jump on a flight path and was struck with something they “wanted” but didn’t neccessarily “need” enough to make a special trip to the broker for.

    Personal stores definitely can attract/sell to a larger audience if used correctly and not abused, and can also be sold from while selling from the broker also.

    Take manastones for instance, if you set up a personal store out in the wilderness by a quest hub, and someone hands in their quest and gets a new piece of gear, they now need to manastone that gear. They see your personal store with +shield defense stones for 5k and they buy one. They don’t know how much they cost on the broker, they just don’t want to make a special trip there. You also have to deal with idiotic undercutters on the broker, which may have dropped the price of that stone down to 500kinah instead of 5,000. It’s pure marketing strategy, “location, location, location”…everyone is selling stuff on the broker, but not everyone is selling the same item as you out in the woods by “quest giver A”.

  4. Thirteen says:

    If only all Aion players were as astute in judgement. Unfortunately, there are laws against Drinking and Driving, that are quite severe because few have abused the sytem.

    Admitantly there is, im sure, a population of players who can, and do… *ahem* myself, who have found methods to make money at the expense of others langour. I will not share my methods, as too many already know, and doing so would only entice, thus upsetting the current supply and demand for my “service”…
    _
    A 199,999,998 Manastone isnt the way.
    _
    Imagining Aions splendor at the absence of the squatters is a lustrous view.
    ~13

  5. Ted says:

    [DELETED BY Thirteen]
    Sorry Ted. There is no justification for slander.

    Original Edited post by Ted
    _
    you dont realize this aint WoW
    so stop treating it like it is.

    you all complain when something in the game does not seem WoWish enough

    next thing you gonna say is that the economy in that game is inflated or some shit. and add more races.

    this is not WoW deal with it.The auction house idea may seem good to blizzard but there was not a prob with NCsoft having it in

  6. Thirteen says:

    I want to remind to all our readers, use of vulgar or slanderous comments are not warranted.
    ___________________________
    In reference to Ted’s comments; I am at a loss here, and a little confused. I had looked to locate the WoW comments within this article, and only found this

    “Oh well, whatever they do, at least I’m not playing WoW anymore.
    Hahaha”-Takameanie

    ___________________________
    Thus, I don’t know what to do with this comment or how it applies other than believing it is a matter of a drunken rant of incoherent blabber. Perhaps Ted would like to explain what he/she means.
    ~13

    • Ted says:

      its not just you, but i see a bunch of people ingame as well as out of game who use terminology that should probably stay exlusive to Wow.

      it gets annoying cause its really not the same thing.

      i have read articles about the game critiquing it saying that it should be more like WoW which i dont agree with. and this is one of those

      people keep using the que problem till this day even when its not really a problem anymore

      • Takameanie says:

        I sowwy tat I said I doesn’t want to playz WoW anymoar and I’m happy Aion gave me something to stop praying it Ted.
        Any game that comes out is going to have terminology that comes from WoW, because everyone is more than likely coming from WoW, and as much as we all honestly hate WoW…there are certain things you’re just used to saying…like “LFM for looking for more, LFG for looking for group, WTB for want to buy, WTS for want to sell” does this mean we are secretly wishing Aion was just 100% totally like WoW?…NO…it means that is our understood “game” lingo Just because we’re switching to a new game do we have to start using ” WTLTB = would totally love to buy”…the “terminology” is just that…terminology…it has nothing to do with the game…blizzard didn’t “develop” the terms ppl use in the game. Also, I haven’t read a single article saying it should be more like WoW lol…I don’t think ANYONE wants this to be ANYTHING like WoW…(hence the hordes and hordes (sorry for saying hordes!! I know that word only belongs in WoW now even though its a normal word) of people switching over to play Aion because they’re sick of WoW)

        PS…..WoW tanks horribly compared to Aion…but that’s just my OPINION…and opinions are like ___holes….everyone’s got one….they dont’ have to be unbiased (the beautiful thing about opinions)

  7. Yukie says:

    I’ve played another game which has a personal store system that worked and no broker, and I think it was a great idea. I missed it dearly when I switched to WoW which only had auction houses. Here are my reasons:
    I don’t know about the deposit amounts for high level items in Aion yet but both in WoW and Aion, there is a Trade chat where people who yell to sell things that for whatever reason, they don’t want to put on auction. Trade spam never happened in the other game, instead you just set up a store somewhere and come back to it later. It achieves the same thing as yelling in Trade, except you don’t actually have to be at your computer and constantly spamming.
    The second thing is, with browsing auction or trade house, all you have to do is a search and you are given a list of the same item, sorted by price. There is almost no mystery and you simply will buy the lowest price. At this point, selling is just a game of undercutting – let’s see who checks their sales more frequently, undercuts more frequently. With browsing personal stores, you get more of a sense of real “shopping”, maybe you’ll browse all the stores and find the best deal, or maybe you’re in a hurry and will miss the cheap store in the corner. When people vend, prices are less competitive because even if you are not the lowest price, as long as you have an acceptable price, people may buy it.
    To be honest, I haven’t played Aion for too long yet, but I have played each of those 2 vending systems for several years, and that’s the difference.

    • Takameanie says:

      The thing about posting an item in trade chat is, everyone can see trade chat, but not everyone is going to take a peak in your personal store/broker. Someone that really wants your item may not ever run across your personal store, but they will see the item you post in trade chat.

      • Yukie says:

        There are a few sides to that. First I know plenty of people who turn off Trade chat because it’s become a spam channel which includes useless talk and LFG. Even as I leave it on because I want to see potential deals, it is one of the more annoying aspects of these games.
        Also Trade chat only works as players glance at it, and coincidentally notices something of interest. No one really sits there and stare at it all day, so you and another potential seller could have just missed each other. Finding items through Trade is always a matter of chance.
        With stores, you’re actually browsing to see if you can find what you want, in the way that you can’t “browse” chat. Yes you can technically browse the broker too, but people who buy things from the broker are usually searching items they already have in mind. This shop browsing is like window shopping, you don’t have to be looking for something in particular but a sign can catch your attention just like an ad in Trade.
        When I first encountered Trade chat in GW and WoW, coming from the shop system, I thought it was really stupid and primitive.
        In the other game I’ve played, players can also set up signs like WTB something, and sit in the middle of town with that. I also like that a lot better than having to constantly yell WTB in trade. It would be even better if the store system has an automatic buying option where you can AFK and just set it to buy certain mats for a set price.

        • Takameanie says:

          More people than you think watch the trade chat. To test it you could type in ” /say hello ” and ” /trade hello ” I would bet you would get 4-5 times the ammount of responses on trade chat. This would be the equivalent of putting a message in a personal store message and typing it in trade chat. Only the people directly around your character see your personal store, but someone way out in a distant quest land can see my post in trade chat. I don’t stare at the trade chat either, but even without staring directly at it, I can notice when a green/blue/colored item flashes across the screen and scroll up to check it out. Probably an item I would never have come across in a personal store, because out of every 10 personal stores I see, I probably only look into 2 of them. Who has time to go sifting through 800 personal stores to find that special item. Actually the only items trade chat is really used to advertise are the rare items, usually gear, because a lot of people will want to buy Manastones, but there aren’t very many level 20 gladiators out there to buy your polearm. In the case of the polearm it is better to post in trade chat letting as many lvl 20 gladiators (or people with a lvl 20 gladiator alt) see that item. Other items, such as manastones and crafting items are better to sell in a personal store set up near the craft area, or the broker because these are the prime spots to market these materials. You can still use the personal store anyway, you just can’t go AFK and leave it up, so you still could sell things from it. The problem is “who wants to sit at their game doing nothing just to try and sell stuff for 3 hours just moving the mouse around to stay ‘active’ “

          • Yukie says:

            I just don’t think we are on the same page. Talking /s and /trade is totally not a valid comparison of store vs. yelling. In one very obvious way, /s is only whoever randomly happen to be standing next to you at the time. A store at a specific location, give something like a shopping district that I mentioned from the other game, people know to go there and they go there specifically to shop. Yes I would think that if you set up a store in the middle of nowhere, you wouldn’t get any business compared to Trade.

            I do notice the trade chat links too… while I am there, the main issue is that you are not always in game and on that map. So for you to find the right seller or that right seller finding you is completely up to chance. And more people block trade than you think too, particularly in Aion with gold spamming not under any control.
            Also people’s attention span for sitting in front of a comp just to yell is clearly much shorter than if they can set up a store and AFK, so compare someone who tries to yell for 30 minutes vs. a shop set up overnight. It makes the merchandizes much more available.
            And there is actually nothing wrong w/ browsing 800 store titles, as I had shopped that way for 5 year in another game. You only don’t like it because you are not used to it, and the system in Aion hasn’t developed a mature market yet. It really doesn’t take long to just mouse over a bunch of store name or glance through a screen full of store names. Meanwhile, if you really don’t want to spend that time, go ahead and use the broker. Both for a buyer and a seller, having to continuously spam your msg is not a great way to spend your active game time.

            Now I do not plan to make further arguments on behalf of the shops, clearly you just don’t like them. But I have played with both systems extensively and in a mature environment, and I have seen the advantages and disadvantages of both at their fullest. There are things that I do not like about shops, such as your computer has to be turned on *obviously* and wasting energy overnight, and the server inevitably lags around the market area, but none of which you say are among them.

  8. Yukie says:

    There are the problems that come with personal stores like lag which is unavoidable. In the other game I’ve played, there is one area which became the “shopping district” where everyone set up there stores. Yes when you walked through it, it lagged like hell, so for the most part, if you are not shopping, you avoided it.
    The other issues raised, such as the abuse of personal stores and the queue is not a problem of the store system. The abuse, with gold spammers advertising etc. and not getting banned, is the slack job done by the GM staff. Even without personal store abuse (which I personally have not seen too many yet because I haven’t been looking), I’ve been getting countless whisper spam and channel spam. Even if they remove the store system, those spams are still there, what they really need to do is remove the people.
    As for queue time, on the high population wow servers, queue time still exists even without personal stores. You can argue that stores added to the amount of time you have to wait but it’s really an issue of managing the population. When I made my Aion character, the newer servers didn’t exist yet. Now if they’d only open free character transfers, my friends and I can’t wait to get off Lumiel, and I am sure there are others who feel the same. That should really help with the queue time.

  9. Thirteen says:

    Those are all very good points Yukie.

    Quote=Yukie
    _
    When I made my Aion character, the newer servers didn’t exist yet. Now if they’d only open free character transfers, my friends and I can’t wait to get off Lumiel, and I am sure there are others who feel the same. That should really help with the queue time.

    My Legion is also on Lumiel, and we are anxious to get off as well. Its very clear when you are in a 2 hr queue, and out of impatience, click the “Select Server” button, and see the list of other servers, of which 5-6 of them state a status of “LOW”.
    I will say though, I make a good bit of Kinah on the Broker in Aion, but I dont do it by undercutting. There are other methods to procurring a large customer base when selling items.

    ~13

  10. Yukie says:

    The wait time for Lumiel is really unfortunate, I’ve gone ahead and started Elyos characters on another low pop server to kill time when there are queues.

    I have not played the Aion market yet (still fairly new to the game) but I have made a lot of money in WoW all from AH (I would have been gold capped if I kept all my money on one char).
    Undercutting is just a method, of course the real key is to sell items that the player population needs. The people who can figure that out are the ones who will surely make money, and you make so much more money than people who just “play” the AH with buy low sell high if you can lead the pack in discovering new possibilities. But eventually you get to a point where many others have found out about it too, and when they stupidly post 20 of the same item at a slightly lower price every single day, then the game of undercutting begins. Personally I think it’s not a good way of business because in the end both sides are making less profit than desired. But there’s no way to reason with people who don’t understand simple supply and demand.
    I really can’t say right now that this all applies to Aion, so my experience from store and Auction is just how I’ve seen those 2 systems work from 2 other games.

  11. Takameanie says:

    “And there is actually nothing wrong w/ browsing 800 store titles, as I had shopped that way for 5 year in another game.”

    lol I don’t like it because browsing 800 stores to find one item would take 2 hours…seeing someone post it in trade chat takes 1 second.
    Also, trade chat hits every continent out there in Aion, as does LFG. Only channel that is zone specific is general. I know this because when I’m in morheim I see ppl posting that are in Altgard and Ishalgen. For the ppl that block trade…they’d have to block LFG and general also, because the spammers are on every channel. By doing this, they just made Aion a solo only game because they won’t be able to find groups for anything (lots of group quests out there). It’d be a higher probability that someone who doesn’t have trade blocked would see my item and buy it than someone who has trade blocked would happen across my personal store anyway.

    Don’t get me wrong, I like the personal stores (as they used to be with unlimited time), because lets face it…you HAVE to AFK with a personal store, I mean, who wants to sit in front of their computer watching their char. just sit there only so they can move the mouse a bit every 30 min. lol. I’m just debunking your bad thoughts on the trade channel. I’ve sold more high cost rare items on trade than on the broker. Common items are fine to put on AH and personal stores, because everyone is looking for them. Rare one of a kind items, however, trade channel is the best way to market.

    Also, if there was a “market shopping area”…I would probably never go there. It would be an insane lagfest, and after sifting through 799 personal stores of garbage I would probably leave and miss the 800th that had a superfantasticzomgholycow item in it.

  12. Takameanie says:

    “Talking /s and /trade is totally not a valid comparison of store vs. yelling. In one very obvious way, /s is only whoever randomly happen to be standing next to you at the time.”

    I think it’s pretty much the same thing…I didn’t mean just type /s one time…type it every 5 min. so that new ppl in the area see it…at the same time though type it in /trade. It’s the same thing only the people that are around you (at any time of the day 24/7 if you will) can see your store, but everyone online (that hasn’t totally isolated themselves to their own little world (who should probably just go buy a single player game, because they just took the “MM” out of “MMORPG” its not very massive or multiplayer anymoar)) can see you post an item in trade channel.

  13. Ihrdot says:

    Okay, simple fix and everyone will be happy. Add an action, /command, to disable personal stores within your game. I /nops and bam, no dialogue floating over the guys on stools, in fact they all become low poly ghosts, visible, but unobtrusive. Now neither side can complain and all is well.

    • Takameanie says:

      That’s not what ppl are QQing about. They’re QQing because they “think” people using personal stores to go AFK for hours is the reason for 4 hour Queuee times. The real reason is overpopulation by NCsoft.
      I was in a fortress raid the other night, and my character could NOT move, my screen was frozen, half my legion d/c’d, about 50 people around me d/c’d…they were just disappearing, dropping like flies if you will. NCSoft’s servers are no where NEAR capable of supporting the size population they let on, let alone their individual “zone servers” or whatever they have each zone run by…fortress raid end game idea needs to be able to support 100% of the max server pop. in whatever space that end game is…if it’s in a 2×2 box…then they need to have that 2×2 box able to support 3,000 players at one single time. This is also what leads to huge queuee times, when they let too many people on a server because they think “well they can’t ALL be on at the same time”

  14. Thirteen says:

    Okay, So lets have the resolution to this..
    I have been in contact with my buddy at NCSoft. He has been allowed to inform me, NCSoft is aware of the over population directly related to the Cryengine.dll file crashes, and server queues. NCSoft is working on a fix, which is likely to be put into an upcoming patch soon. (BTW, ignore the statement about the “typo”, it was in a previous conversation.. :) )
    _
    Hey XXXXXXX, Sorry it’s taken so long to get back to you. Hayden has been rather busy, and he says he’s sorry abou the typo. The development team has recently become aware of the various CryEnginer-related DLL crashes. This means that they’re now working to get this resolved as quickly as they can. The resolution will likely be implemented as an upcoming patch for the game in the near future. Don’t hesitate to to ask or call if you have other questions.

    Talk to you later,
    XXXXX
    NCSoft Technical Support Mgr.-NA Applications
    _____________________
    Obviously, I have marked out both his and my name. None the less, what this means is that..
    1. “Server overpopulation”, wasnt the proplem. Several key functions of the game werent operating properly. NCSoft has first, rectified the login queue times, and as a result, has sent all players (5) of an item in game, via the mail. It is the Loken Amulet, grants 1hr of bonus EXP.
    2. “CryEngine.dll crashes”, this is directly the root of the system-wide graphic lag, and failures in high populated areas. I spoke to XXXXX on the phone Friday. He indicated to me, this is NOT an easy fix. So to everyone… please be patient.

    ~13